Phodown Lowdown

April 22nd, 2007 · 14 Comments

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Phodown Lowdown

Pho Thai Hoa ext
The Phodown Recap
By Jason Chin
Eat Vancouver Writer

Download the excel file (with links to previous articles)
Download the SPSS file

After a dozen phos, the phodown is finally over and I have to admit, it’s been a turbulent ride. My sodium intake has been all over the charts, some nights waking me up, dry-mouthed in the middle of the night, absolutely certain that the pho-gods were hiding just around the corner. I’ve had bowls of pho envelop me with their fragrant bouquets, just daring me slurp up my fill, and I’ve had bowls of pho whisper to me, almost inaudibly, words of warning: “You are going to regret this later.” And I did. This is not to mention the Fishman sending me painstaking looks that sent a message as clear day, “When will this be over?” I haven’t seen such pure, unbridled dread in his someone’s eyes since someone mentioned the word “salad” to Gerald Tritt.

The grind of the phodown notwithstanding, the time has come to tabulate the data and name the best and worst of Vancouver’s pho. First, I’ll provide a quick recap of the rating guidelines we used, and some notes about the reliability of the data.

Along with either Desmond (twice) and the Fishman (ten times), I rated twelve Vancouver pho restaurants on five dimensions. Some pho places were recommended by Eat Vancouver or Egullet readers, and some were simply places we found by driving around Kingsway, Fraser, Main St, or East Hastings. We tried to sample a wide variety of geographic locations, but inevitably, we couldn’t try everything (there’s always phodown 2008).

Pho Van Luong phoInitially, we weren’t quite sure on what we were looking for on the various dimensions, but after the first two-three pho places, we got pretty good at identifying what we deemed quality. For broth, strong flavor was key, both with a deep meaty flavor and good aroma. We tended to deduct points for excess salt and oil. When rating the rare beef component we looked for freshness and tenderness, with not much fat. For the cooked brisket we also paid attention to texture as some was so overcooked it turned into a crumbly mess, as well as fat content, although we did appreciate a moderate amount of fat on the brisket. Noodle ratings were pretty straightforward in that as long as they weren’t too many or too clumpy, life was good. For condiments variety and freshness were king – we liked a good selection of sauces, and we disliked wilted basil. Extra points went to places with little bowl dispensers because it was nice to not have to ask for them, and they are pretty much crucial as a means of mixing and dipping. Finally, with regards to service and atmosphere, a friendly server and prompt service went a long way. We weren’t expecting a lot with regards to décor and cleanliness as pho is a rustic dish, and we probably wouldn’t feel right about eating it in a fancy restaurant. But still, this is Vancouver, not Vietnam, and some level of hygiene was expected. Extra points went to places with cool fish tanks.

Reliability of ratings was very good. My ratings tended to agree very strongly with the ratings of the Fishman and Desmond. The correlation between our overall ratings was a staggering .925, a level of inter-rater reliability that is rarely seen in even the most controlled studies. This high level of agreement was especially surprising given the fact that the other rater and I did not discuss the quality of the pho before rating, and our ratings were generated privately and independently. Categorical ratings (e.g., broth, beef, etc) were also highly correlated, with condiment ratings showing the highest agreement, which is not surprising as the indications of quality were most clear with this category (selection of condiments, freshness). Agreement on noodle ratings showed the least agreement, possibly because of different definitions of noodle quality. Finally, there was no correlation between pho quality and price, or in other words, pricier pho isn’t any better than cheaper pho – good to know.

Now that the bookkeeping is taken care of, let’s get down to what I’m sure everyone is wondering: what pho is the best and what pho is the worst? The inaugural phodown has found that Vancouver’s best pho is…

drum roll…

cut to commercial…

more annoying Ryan-Seacrest-like-pauses…

”pho
Pho Thai Hoa on Kingsway! Like A-Rod this April, Pho Thai Hoa carried the day, nearly sweeping the categories. With an overall score of 8.3/10, it dominated in broth, condiments, and was second in service/atmosphere. In retrospect, its beefy, aromatic broth indeed stands out, as does the proliferation of fresh condiments and super-friendly service. Hai Phong came in a close second with an overall score of 8/10. Hai Phong relied on a balanced attack, coming in close to first in all categories, highlighted also by excellent broth and condiments scores. Coming in next were Pho Van, with its excellent broth, followed by Co Do, which snuck into the top five with its great work with condiments and service/atmosphere. Rounding out the top five was Kim Phung, where across categories it was good, but not great.

The clear loser of the event was Pho Le (4.8/10), which was doomed by beef that was very fatty and well past its prime. We barely touched this stuff and still felt queasy afterwards. Next to last was Pho Tan, with its bland broth, followed by Pho 66 which lacked flavor and featured the highest noodle to soup ratio of all phos.

Value

When it came to quality for money, Pho Thai Hoa was also king, followed once again by Hai Phong. Note however, that this is where Hai Phong nearly overtook the champ with a quality per dollar ratio of 1.391, as compared to Pho Thai Hoa’s score of 1.395. Value at these places is clearly exceptional, separated only by a small fraction of a difference. Value was lowest at Pho Le, which wasn’t particularly expensive, but could only really be a value if they gave it away. Second worse value was found at Pho 66, which charged a whopping $7.75 for its mediocre soup.

Category Winners

”phoWhen it comes to pho, I’m of the mind that broth is king. It was for this reason that I was happy that our broth leader, Pho Thai Hoa (9.75/10) also won best overall. Hai Phong (8.5/10) and Pho Van (8.25/10) trailed closely. That the broth winners were the same restaurants that took the top three overall spots serves to support the belief that a thoughtful broth is a good indicator of a pho joint that’s putting work into their product.

Pho Hoang, a veritable Vancouver pho institution took the best noodle award (8.75/10) for its al dente noodles that separated with ease. Hai Phong followed closely with a more than respectable 8.25.

As we learned at Pho Le, bad beef can ruin an otherwise decent bowl of pho. When it came to beef, we primarily looked for freshness. We preferred lean cuts when it came to the rare beef and a reasonable amount of fat with the fully-cooked brisket. Dark horse candidate Pho Hung ran away with the best beef award (7.75/10), followed closely by Pho Tan and Pho Van, which both scored a 7.5.

Phodown champ Pho Thai Hoa ran away with the condiment award (9.25/10), for its excellent variety, freshness, and little bowl dispensers. Kim Phung was second with an excellent 8.75.

Eating pho is great, and we can certainly all appreciate the product for what it is, but eating pho in a nice place with a friendly service staff can make the experience all the more pleasant. Co Do (9/10) managed to take the top spot in service/atmosphere. Now the pessimists will say this is because we visited during the grand opening period and everything was pristine and new, with a staff that was perhaps too new to be jaded. Still, traditional phodown rules apply and the service was great and the fish tank was clean and full of interesting fish. Pho Thai Hoa (8.5/10) came in second, while Pho Van and Pho 66 tied for third, clocking in at 8.25. Note that Pho 66 didn’t have a cool fish tank, but probably the nicest servers we encountered.

Discussing the Conclusions

As the great Darryl Zero once said, the keys to a successful investigation are “two basic principles: objectivity and observation, or ‘the two obs.’” While I won’t claim that we did both perfectly, I will hold to the belief that we did our best. In my eyes we’ve managed to discriminate between several qualities of pho, hopefully suggesting places a curious pho-goer should try, and places he or she should steer clear of. Moreover, those who place more or less weight on a specific pho category (e.g., broth hounds, like myself) can find joints that suit these specific desires.

Don’t fret if your favorite pho joint did not make our investigation. I’m tentatively planning to do an abbreviated phodown for 2007-2008 including this year’s top dogs plus more reader suggestions, like Au Petite Café and Vong Gac.

Well, I hope you’ve enjoyed reading the phodown as much as we enjoyed doing it. Until next year’s phodown, I wish you happing slurping.

Tags: Pho

14 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Dan // Apr 22, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    Here are my thoughts on the ‘down, which I wrote up before reading Jason’s report:

    Well, it’s hard to believe the Phodown is finally over. As I have written in this space many times, much like a major league baseball season, over time the day-in, day-out grind of eating that much pho really starts to wear on you. But as I look back on the whole thing, it’s the memories that will stick with me. Everytime I pass through Chinatown I look fondly upon Pho Le and think “You know, I may never eat something that revolting again.” To call that a good meal would be like calling Gerald Tritt a good guy. All in all, I think we did some good work, and I think we really separated the men-phos from the boy-phos. I am quite happy with our winning selection, and they should be very happy with themselves (although they could be even happier if they just fixed that rare beef). I guess the only appropriate way to end the Pho-down for me would be to say: So long, and thanks for all the fish tanks!

  • 2 Chowman // Apr 23, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    Thank you for risking taste buds and courting hypertension in your seach for pho. For inclusion in your next phodown, I suggest Pho Lan in Richmond.

    May your basil always be fresh!

    Chowman

  • 3 connoisseur // May 22, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    I think you should rename your blog – “we hate Gerald and Vera’s”

    It would bring some editorial integrity into the process, and in fact, might be interesing enough to bring in some actual readers! I know I’d be coming here more often.

  • 4 Jason // May 22, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    I don’t come to your job and heckle you.

  • 5 Judy // Sep 10, 2007 at 10:45 am

    I recently moved to Vancouver from San Francisco Bay Area (Oakland to be exact), and was excited to check out your recommendation. What a disappointment! The service at Pho Thai Hoa was horrible, the table disgustingly dirty, and with 2 different TVs blaring 2 different channels, the restaurant was noisy to boot. It wasn’t a good sign from the beginning when the waitress put down the water glasses with her index fingers half way in the water. We thought the pho was all right, a passing C+ maybe. Deep flavor, but way too greasy. Maybe it was an “off” day, so I’m willing to give it another try, but not until I check out your runner-up choices.

  • 6 Jason // Sep 10, 2007 at 9:56 pm

    Hi Judy,

    I’m really sorry this happened to you based on my recommendation!

    It was nearly a year ago when we did this visit and it’s certainly possible that things have gone downhill. I visited again in the summer and it seemed the pho wasn’t quite as good as I remembered and they no longer had the sauce bowl dispensers at the table. Service also wasn’t quite as good as I remembered but fine.

    I’m planning to do a smaller version of the phodown this winter with pho thai hoa and a few of the runners up and some new entries. someone new could very well knock off the king at this rate. let me know if you find anything worth phodowning.

    thanks and sorry again.

    -jason

  • 7 Jason // Sep 10, 2007 at 9:58 pm

    forgot to mention, i grew up in oakland. but i wasn’t into pho at the time. how is the scene there?

  • 8 Judy // Oct 8, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Hi, Jason. I just checked out the runner-up, Hai Phong, and LOVED it. Great service, comfy and clean, and the pho had great flavor, not-too-greasy broth. The noodles were a little soft (overcooked?) but that’s a pretty minor complaint. We also ordered a pork chop rice plate, which was also quite good — but a bit skimpy on the meat. Yay!

    Ah, and an Oakland connection, eh? I’m used to thinking of Oakland as a great place for pho — Chinatown, Fruitvale, and even some of the upscale places like Le Cheval — but I haven’t really scrutinized them like I am doing here. I just took ’em for granted, I think. But still, I rarely, rarely complained about the quality of pho or other Vietnamese food in Oakland.

    Looking forward to exploring more of food in Vancouver,

    Judy

  • 9 Jason // Oct 15, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    I really wish I had tried pho in Oakland, even just for comparison’s sake. I do remember a pretty good hotdog place.

    If you run into any great pho in Vancouver, please let me know so I can include it in the next phodown.

    -Jason

  • 10 Tomorrow’s Secret Dot Com Pho Location Is… | Stephen Fung DOT NET // Jul 11, 2008 at 9:54 am

    […] transit stops along the way. This place gets a 3 out of five at Dinehere and was a winner in some Pho Down by dudes we don’t know. If it’s bad, blame […]

  • 11 Pandamon // May 30, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    The 2007 Phodown is over and out, don’t feel orphaned.
    For continuing updated results on the latest Pho research, check out our group:

    http://www.flickr.com/groups/pho-reviews-vancouver/

    Long live Pho

  • 12 ashley // Jul 12, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    theres two places i’ve been to that have had very good pho.
    ones a block away from naniamo & its on hastings. (across the street from chruchs chicken)
    and theres another on 54th on fraser. (across the street from shoppers)

  • 13 Brent Hardy // Nov 24, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Glad you mentioned that you’ll expand your search to other places, like Au petite Cafe at 33rd and Main. I suspect your rankings will change when you do. One of the best phos in Vancouver, and their subs are the best!

  • 14 heather // Dec 5, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    I’d like to find Pho with no MSG. Is that possible?

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